Abortion Staffs & Emotional Stress (1 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/23/2001 9:20 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 18)  
 
  235.1  
 
Abortion Workers and Psychological Stress
by Father Frank Pavone

The use of the gas chambers in the Nazi holocaust is common knowledge.
What is not so commonly known, however, is the reason why the method of
killing was changed from shooting to gassing. And that reason reveals a
frightening parallel with what is going on in the abortion industry today.

In the documents of the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials, we read the following
excerpt:

"Women and children were to be executed with the men. In this respect, the
Einsatzgruppen leaders encountered a difficulty they had not anticipated.
Many of the enlisted men were husbands and fathers, and they winced as
they pulled their triggers on these helpless creatures who reminded them
of their own wives and offspring at home. ... This was hard on the
executioners, personnel experts reported to the RSHA in Berlin, and to
relieve their emotional sensitivity, gas vans were sent to the rescue."
(Title: "XI: Opinion and Judgment: Appropriation of Personal Methods of
Execution: Part 2, United States of America v. Otto Ohlendorf, et. al.
(Case 9:  'Einsatzgruppen Case'). District of Columbia: GPO, 1950. pp.
448-453.)

Gassing was not bloody, and took place behind the closed doors of the
vans. It reduced the stress placed on the killers.

Abortion practitioners publicly admit a similar emotional stress on the
clinic workers who have to deal with the body parts of aborted babies. In
the book Second Trimester Abortion: Perspectives After a Decade of
Experience (Berger, Brenner, Keith, eds, Martinus Nijhoff Publishers,
1981), there is a chapter called "Psychological Impact on Patients and
Staff," in which we read that "soon after voluntary abortion became a
legal reality, some authorities observed an unanticipated, strong
emotional reaction by the staff" (p. 242). Notice the similarity of the
following quote with the one from the Nuremberg trials: "Nurses found
physical contact with the fetus particularly difficult; it reminded them
of the 'preemies' just down the hall and made them uncomfortable as they
thought about their own potential future pregnancies" (p. 245).

We read further in the Nuremberg documents that even the method of gassing
created problems for those who had to unload the bodies:

"Becker then complained that members of the Kommando should not be
required to unload the corpses. 'I brought to the attention of the
commanders of those S.K. concerned, the immense psychological injuries and
damages to their health which that work can have for those men, even if
not immediately, at least later on. The men complained to me about
headaches which appeared after each unloading." (Title: "XI" as above).

This is why the task of unloading the bodies was eventually given to the
Jews who themselves were destined for killing. In the abortion industry,
the abortionist will leave to the nurses and the assistants the grim task
of reassembling and disposing of body parts.

The lesson? While abortionists attempt to reduce the psychological impact
of the killing, we need to increase that impact on the public, so that
more people will work to stop it.

From:  The Pro-Life Infonet http//www.prolifeinfo.org 

Reply-To:  Steven Ertelt infonet@prolifeinfo.org
Subject:   Father Pavone on Abortion Workers and Psychological Stress
Source:   Priests for Life; October 21, 2001






David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/23/2001 10:43 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 18)  
 
  235.2 in reply to 235.1  
 
David, interesting article. Are there any articles in the same vein referring to the individuals who carry out capital punishment? 
Dave 



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Edited 10/23/01 1:50:06 PM ET by DAVEHORNE711 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/23/2001 11:00 am  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (3 of 18)  
 
  235.3 in reply to 235.2  
 
Hi Dave,

 

Im sure few people enjoy being a part of a firing squad or any other form of capital punishment.

 

What the post that I posted studies is the effects of Mass Killings inflicted on Innocent people. People that have committed no crimes against their fellow humans except for the crime of being undesirable and in the wrong location at the wrong time.

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/23/2001 12:35 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 18)  
 
  235.4 in reply to 235.3  
 
David, 
<Im sure few people enjoy being a part of a firing squad or any other form of capital punishment.> 

That may be, but who knows. 

I do find it interesting that conservative Christian groups such as the FRC (Family Research Council) have a policy against abortion, but _no_ platform against capital punishment. I'm sure a policy against capital punishment would cut into the donations. I also realize this is getting slightly off of the original topic, ... but not so very much. 

I always thought that the sanctity of human life was a clear-cut issue, but capital punishment seems to muddy the water a bit. 

All the best, Dave 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/23/2001 12:50 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (5 of 18)  
 
  235.5 in reply to 235.4  
 
The Bible calls for capital punishment in cases of murder.

 

Genesis 9:6 Who so sheddeth mans blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made He man.

 

Note this Commandment is given to Noah and his descendants therefore this verse is to all the nations.

 

Israel starting with Abraham is a nation governed by God. In the Laws to govern Israel God included several other capital offenses. For instance being a witch is a capital offense in Biblical times in Israel.

 

Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

 





David A. Brown
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/23/2001 1:05 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (6 of 18)  
 
  235.6 in reply to 235.5  
 
David, 
<The Bible calls for capital punishment in cases of murder.> 

The Bible calls for the death of a woman who is not a virgin (or behaving _like_ a prostitute) 

Deuteronomy, Chapter 22, verse 20: 

But if it is true that the young woman could produce no evidence of virginity, the men of her city must bring the young woman to the door of her fathers house and stone her to death, for she has done a foolish thing in Israel by behaving like a prostitute while living in her fathers house; thus you will purge evil from among you. >>> 

There are, of course, different versions of that, but that seems pretty clear and, for me, a bit extreme. I suppose once you start quoting the Bible, you will be confronted with verses that you may not like. Dave 

Edited 10/23/2001 4:08:41 PM ET by DAVEHORNE711 



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Edited 10/23/2001 4:09:20 PM ET by DAVEHORNE711 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/23/2001 1:43 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (7 of 18)  
 
  235.7 in reply to 235.6  
 
God gave His laws to Rid the land of Evil

 

Remember that people can kill the body but people cannot kill the soul & spirit. Im sure that many people who have died from capital punishment guilty and innocent alike died in Repentance to God and were received by God into Heaven. In the way that an appointment with death is a chance to repent capital punishment is very humane. 

 

I doubt if murders and rapists are humane in the Evil treatment of their victims.

 

God is specific that Adultery and fornication and a host of other sins do destroy the soul and that destruction is for eternity.

 

BTW The Bible and everything in it are fine with me!





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/23/2001 2:00 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (8 of 18)  
 
  235.8 in reply to 235.7  
 
David, 
David said it, he believes it, that settles it. 

All the best, Dave 

 
  
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  From:  bromd   10/24/2001 7:56 am  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (9 of 18)  
 
  235.9 in reply to 235.8  
 
One quick note now that I'm thinking about it. 75% of the Christian convert population in the United States has a history of violent crime or rampant drug abuse or alcoholism. 25% of that 75% has spent hard time in prison. Stastically, 90% of current death row inmates are also "born again" Christian. 95% of terrorists, both international and domestic, have a strong affinity to a given religion. McVeigh was a devout fundmentalist, for example. 
Sources: US Census, FBI, ATF and DEA as reported by Time Magazine.
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/24/2001 8:13 am  
To:  bromd   (10 of 18)  
 
  235.10 in reply to 235.9  
 
If you are trying to claim that Christians are violent you are using the wrong numbers.

 

You are quoting numbers from the actions of people that were not a Christian at the time of their violent behavior and then applying their non-Christian actions to them after they have become a Christian. Your numbers do indicate that as Christian people can change and change for the better.

 

Besides Jesus is the standard of Justice and Righteousness that we are to compare ourselves to. You can Accuse people all day long and it will Not make you any better or any more Godly.





David A. Brown
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/24/2001 12:25 pm  
To:  bromd   (13 of 18)  
 
  235.13 in reply to 235.9  
 
BROMD, could you please provide the date of that Time magazine article? I might be able to get that online. 
Thanks, Dave Horne
 
  
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  From:  bromd   10/25/2001 6:23 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (14 of 18)  
 
  235.14 in reply to 235.13  
 
I'm not sure if I can help you that much. I used the above information as part of a college oratory a while back for a religion class. Because of that I never really had to cite the material except for a brief, "a recent issue of Time magazine stated that....". Not good research skills but its all the professor demanded. 
All I can remember was that it was in one of the Time issues dealing with the Branch Dividians and the Freemen in Montana. It was part of their weekly "numbers" lineup at the beginning of the magazine. 

I'm sorry I can't help you more on finding the exact issue.
 
  
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  From:  bromd   10/25/2001 6:52 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (15 of 18)  
 
  235.15 in reply to 235.10  
 
-If you are trying to claim that Christians are violent you are using the wrong numbers.- 
Actually, in that issue of Time, they were focusing on why people join cults in relationship to the Waco, Texas incident. The general psychological consensus is that people replace one vice with another addiction. This is why AA graduates who were already religious before entering the program have a 75% relapse rate while those who find religion while in the program only have a 5% possibility of relapse. 

-You are quoting numbers from the actions of people that were not a Christian at the time of their violent behavior and then applying their non-Christian actions to them after they have become a Christian.- 

It was reported that Tim McVeigh was very much Christian up to his death. Jeffrey Dahmer turned fundamentalist Christian in prison. To say that he was then a pure man, although still homosexual, after being baptized would be a contradiction. Especially when you consider that he killed his cellmate later that year. 

The American Family Association lobbied to keep sexual preference out of the hate crime bill in congress because 90% of all hate crimes towards homosexuals are committed by a Christian. http://detnews.com/VOICES/BERMAN/000307/000307.htm 

-You can Accuse people all day long and it will Not make you any better or any more Godly.- 

I accused no one, however you accused me of pointing fingers. I've got nothing against Christians. Hell, I'm born and raised Catholic. I only stated facts. Christians aren't the only ones who abuse religion for personal stances. Every religion in history has been guilty of it at one time or another. 



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Edited 10/25/01 9:57:00 PM ET by BROMD 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/26/2001 12:03 am  
To:  bromd   (16 of 18)  
 
  235.16 in reply to 235.14  
 
BROMD, thanks for replying even if you do not know the exact - it should be easy enough to track down. 
You know, this is interesting - this is the second message from you to me and David Brown answered both before I. 

All the best, Dave
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   10/26/2001 12:05 am  
To:  bromd   (17 of 18)  
 
  235.17 in reply to 235.15  
 
David, I see you included a web address in this posting. I had a posting removed from you months ago and the reason given was that I included a web address. Could you clarify the rules in this forum for me re web addresses? 
Thanks, Dave
 
  
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   From:  David (DavidABrown)    11/19/2001 10:51 am  
To:  ALL   (18 of 18)  
 
  235.18 in reply to 235.1  
 
Source:   Reuters; November 16, 2001

Viet Nam Tries to Stop Sex-Selection Abortions

Hanoi, Viet Nam -- A panel in Vietnam, a nation with one of the world's
highest rates of abortion, said on Friday it was drafting a law to bar
doctors from determining the sex of an unborn child.

Dinh Cong Thoan, head of the team drafting the law, said it aimed to end
the practice of aborting female children.

"If people know in advance the infant's sex is not to their choosing, they
might choose abortion," said Thoan, of the National Committee for
Population and Family Planning. "Society's sexual balance should be
natural, shouldn't it?"

He added, "Vietnamese couples still tend to prefer boys to girls. That's a
common Oriental psychology."

Vietnam has 106 males for every 100 females and it is common for couples
to check the sex of unborn children in advance, Thoan said. In some rural
provinces the rate was 112 or even 116 males to 100 females, he added.

Thoan said that although the problem of aborting female babies was now
less serious than in the past, nearby China's current surplus of 100
million men over women showed the problem that could arise if the practice
went unchecked.

"A surplus of men could cause far greater social upheaval than a surplus
of women," he said. "Men could start killing each other over women."

Thoan said there would need to be more discussion how to implement the
proposal and it would be put up for comments from government bodies before
being submitted to the Standing Committee of the National Assembly for
approval.

Government figures show Vietnam last year recorded 217,691.

Thoan said the law would also follow other nations in calling for limits
on cloning of human beings.

"It's wonderful to be able to clone parts of human bodies for health
purposes," he said. "But to create a whole new person who is 100% like
someone else would be unnatural. It would create a machine-like society."



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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